MACRAO

Tuesday, September 8, 2015

Re: Assuming Gen Ed Completion

We require an official transcript for every student, degree or not.

From: MACRAO Listserv [mailto:MACRAO@LISTSERV.GFCMSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Dellwo, Sarah
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2015 12:10 PM
To: MACRAO@LISTSERV.GFCMSU.EDU
Subject: Re: Assuming Gen Ed Completion

I actually have a question to piggy back on these questions.

If a student completed a Bachelor’s degree, and had a variety of classes transferred in for that degree, do they have to provide you with all of the original transcripts or do you just say they have completed the gen ed since they have a degree?

Also, are you posted the classes that complete their gen ed, just a total amount of credits, or something different?

Thanks,

Sarah Dellwo, Director of Admissions and Records

1115 North Roberts

Helena, MT 59601

(p) 406-447-6908 (f) 406-447-6397

www.umhelena.edu

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From: MACRAO Listserv [mailto:MACRAO@LISTSERV.GFCMSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Charity Walters
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2015 11:18 AM
To: MACRAO@LISTSERV.GFCMSU.EDU
Subject: Re: Assuming Gen Ed Completion

I sent the questions over to the advising center since they deal with this day to day. Here are their responses.

Hi Leslie,

1. When a student has completed a Bachelor’s degree elsewhere, we consider their Gen Eds complete. There may be degree-specific requirements that they will still need to complete, so review may still be necessary.

2. We still consider the gen eds complete, even with Ds, as long as they have been awarded a bachelor’s degree.

3. The student must still meet the prerequisites for a course. So if the only prereq for M 273 is that they have lower division math, then they are ready to take this math. I see the prereq for M 273 is M 172, and the prereq for that is M 171. So if, when they completed their gen eds, they did not take M 171, then they must take the sequence to be prepared for the class. (I think that is what you are asking) So if there are degree specific requirements, they must still complete those, even if their gen eds are complete.

4. AA and AS degrees are handled the same way. AAS degrees, however, are not. They generally do not have all the gen ed requirements as the AA or AS degrees.

Usually, when a student is coming to UMW for a second degree, it’s for education. That department reviews their transcripts to see what they took, how old it is and what they might need to retake. For instance, the Business Department sees students coming back for our Business & Computer Applications Secondary Ed degree. They will look at the age of the computer courses they took to see if they need to update them. Generally if they are older than 5 years they need to brush up, so they may be required to take repeat courses to bring them up to date.

Does that help?

Let me know if that generates more questions.

Margo

From: MACRAO Listserv [mailto:MACRAO@LISTSERV.GFCMSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Dickerson, Leslie - Enrollment Services
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2015 10:11 AM
To: MACRAO@LISTSERV.GFCMSU.EDU
Subject: Assuming Gen Ed Completion

Hello, I have some questions about students transferring in with a Bachelor’s degree and the assumption that their Gen Ed core was met.

1. If a student has a Bachelor’s degree, do you always assume that the Gen Ed are complete? Do you exclude them from the individual courses required to complete the second degree? Do you do a block transfer for the Gen Ed courses?

2. What if the 1^st degree was prior to the exclusion of D grades for graduation? For example, if a student earned the Bachelor’s degree with Ds in Gen Ed courses, do you grandfather those in even though there was a break in attendance?

3. If you assume Gen Ed competency and do not transfer courses individually, how do you handle degrees with higher level math? For example, it seems problematic to allow someone to start in M 273 for an engineering degree by assuming math competency in the first 6 credits of that program.

4. Do you handle the AA or AS transfers with Gen Ed the same way?

Am I making this too complicated? It just seems like the more I dive into this process, the more questions I have. Thanks for any wisdom you can share!

Leslie Dickerson

Montana Tech

Registrar/Executive Dir. of Enrollment Magement

(406) 496-4879

ldickerson@mtech.edu

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Re: Assuming Gen Ed Completion

In regards to the second question, we current post summary credits for all transfers (postbacc or undergrad) and are trying to fix that decision now. If anyone is considering this path I would highly recommend reconsidering. If individual classes are not listed, Banner does not know if the student has met pre-reqs. As a result the student cannot register online and staff have to either individually check students transcripts for pre-reqs every time they register or send them around for pre-req signatures. Very inconvenient for the student and for the offices working with the student.

I won’t obsessively go on about the dangers of grouping credit, but I will say if I had a time machine that is the one decision I would go back in time to stop on Western’s campus.

Charity

I actually have a question to piggy back on these questions.

Also, are you posted the classes that complete their gen ed, just a total amount of credits, or something different?

Thanks,

Sarah Dellwo, Director of Admissions and Records

1115 North Roberts

Helena, MT 59601

(p) 406-447-6908 (f) 406-447-6397

www.umhelena.edu

I sent the questions over to the advising center since they deal with this day to day. Here are their responses.

Hi Leslie,

2. We still consider the gen eds complete, even with Ds, as long as they have been awarded a bachelor’s degree.

4. AA and AS degrees are handled the same way. AAS degrees, however, are not. They generally do not have all the gen ed requirements as the AA or AS degrees.

Does that help?

Let me know if that generates more questions.

Margo

Hello, I have some questions about students transferring in with a Bachelor’s degree and the assumption that their Gen Ed core was met.

4. Do you handle the AA or AS transfers with Gen Ed the same way?

Am I making this too complicated? It just seems like the more I dive into this process, the more questions I have. Thanks for any wisdom you can share!

Leslie Dickerson

Montana Tech

Registrar/Executive Dir. of Enrollment Magement

(406) 496-4879

ldickerson@mtech.edu

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Re: Assuming Gen Ed Completion

I actually have a question to piggy back on these questions.

Also, are you posted the classes that complete their gen ed, just a total amount of credits, or something different?

Thanks,

Sarah Dellwo, Director of Admissions and Records

1115 North Roberts

Helena, MT 59601

(p) 406-447-6908 (f) 406-447-6397

www.umhelena.edu

I sent the questions over to the advising center since they deal with this day to day. Here are their responses.

Hi Leslie,

2. We still consider the gen eds complete, even with Ds, as long as they have been awarded a bachelor’s degree.

4. AA and AS degrees are handled the same way. AAS degrees, however, are not. They generally do not have all the gen ed requirements as the AA or AS degrees.

Does that help?

Let me know if that generates more questions.

Margo

Hello, I have some questions about students transferring in with a Bachelor’s degree and the assumption that their Gen Ed core was met.

4. Do you handle the AA or AS transfers with Gen Ed the same way?

Am I making this too complicated? It just seems like the more I dive into this process, the more questions I have. Thanks for any wisdom you can share!

Leslie Dickerson

Montana Tech

Registrar/Executive Dir. of Enrollment Magement

(406) 496-4879

ldickerson@mtech.edu

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Re: Assuming Gen Ed Completion

Hi Leslie,

This answer may not be quite what you’re looking for, but at Carroll our faculty recently passed a policy that for post-baccalaureate students who have earned a degree from another regionally accredited college or university we will consider our Core Curriculum fulfilled except for one philosophy course and one theology course – and if post-bac students have taken these courses at another institution they can transfer them in. This means that for post-bacs we only transfer in courses that are applicable to the major/minor requirements, and any applicable philosophy or theology class.

I think you raise a lot of good questions, and I’ll admit that when scanning some post-bac transcripts students they are sometimes missing courses that we would normally require in our Core. But on the whole we decided that we needed to trust that students with a BA/BS have already received a “well-rounded” education and that there were some specific mission-centered subjects that we wanted to make sure they had exposure to before awarding a degree from Carroll. Overall we have fond that this policy change has allowed more flexibility for many of our non-traditional students, especially in our professional programs.

Here’s the official policy from the catalog:

Post-baccalaureate students must complete the following requirements:

1. Completion of 3 credits of philosophy and 3 credits of theology to fulfill Core Curriculum requirements;

2. Completion of all program requirements in the major and minor (if one is taken);

3. Achievement of a minimum cumulative 2.0 grade point average in

a. All courses taken,

b. The requirements in the major, taken as a unit,

c. The requirements in the minor, taken as a unit.

Residence Requirements for Post-baccalaureate Students

Of the credit hours earned toward the second degree, a minimum of 30 credit hours must be earned at Carroll College, with at least one-half of the credits required in the major and minor to be taken at Carroll.

Best,

Cassie

Cassie E. Hall

Registrar

Carroll College

1601 N. Benton Ave.

Helena, MT 59625-0002

Tel: (406) 447-4572 / (406) 447-5435

Fax: (406) 447-5503

Email: chall@carroll.edu

Web: www.carroll.edu

Hello, I have some questions about students transferring in with a Bachelor’s degree and the assumption that their Gen Ed core was met.

4. Do you handle the AA or AS transfers with Gen Ed the same way?

Am I making this too complicated? It just seems like the more I dive into this process, the more questions I have. Thanks for any wisdom you can share!

Leslie Dickerson

Montana Tech

Registrar/Executive Dir. of Enrollment Magement

(406) 496-4879

ldickerson@mtech.edu

To unsubscribe from the MACRAO list, click the following link:
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Re: Assuming Gen Ed Completion

Leslie!

Good questions!

1. If a student has a degree, they are considered transfer students. We send them to our faculty advisors. The faculty advisors would review the official transcripts for completion of the Gen Ed core.

2. The answer for #1 would apply here as well, and I believe that we might ask them to retake those courses. We also have time frames for these courses (e.g., A&P) and if has been over so many years, students are required to retake the course.

3. Not sure how that works. Alisha could probably ask that.

4. AAS programs do not commonly cover the Gen Ed, so we would review the transcript and require the student to take the necessary courses (usually math and writing) if they have not taken them. We will consider Gen Ed requirements met with an AS degree.

I think we leave a lot of this in the hands of faculty advisors because they are the experts. Of course, if you don’t utilize faculty advisors like we do, then this doesn’t help you much!

Kristi

Hello, I have some questions about students transferring in with a Bachelor’s degree and the assumption that their Gen Ed core was met.

4. Do you handle the AA or AS transfers with Gen Ed the same way?

Am I making this too complicated? It just seems like the more I dive into this process, the more questions I have. Thanks for any wisdom you can share!

Leslie Dickerson

Montana Tech

Registrar/Executive Dir. of Enrollment Magement

(406) 496-4879

ldickerson@mtech.edu

To unsubscribe from the MACRAO list, click the following link:
http://listserv.gfcmsu.edu/scripts/wa.exe?TICKET=NzM1ODc5IGtyaXN0aS5wZXRlcnNvbjFATVNVTi5FRFUgTUFDUkFPIHGoR003xhQ7&c=SIGNOFF

Re: Assuming Gen Ed Completion

I sent the questions over to the advising center since they deal with this day to day. Here are their responses.

Hi Leslie,

2. We still consider the gen eds complete, even with Ds, as long as they have been awarded a bachelor’s degree.

4. AA and AS degrees are handled the same way. AAS degrees, however, are not. They generally do not have all the gen ed requirements as the AA or AS degrees.

Does that help?

Let me know if that generates more questions.

Margo

Hello, I have some questions about students transferring in with a Bachelor’s degree and the assumption that their Gen Ed core was met.

4. Do you handle the AA or AS transfers with Gen Ed the same way?

Am I making this too complicated? It just seems like the more I dive into this process, the more questions I have. Thanks for any wisdom you can share!

Leslie Dickerson

Montana Tech

Registrar/Executive Dir. of Enrollment Magement

(406) 496-4879

ldickerson@mtech.edu

To unsubscribe from the MACRAO list, click the following link:
http://listserv.gfcmsu.edu/scripts/wa.exe?TICKET=NzM1ODc5IENoYXJpdHkuV2FsdGVyc0BVTVdFU1RFUk4uRURVIE1BQ1JBT66i%2B4%2F5FkYv&c=SIGNOFF

Assuming Gen Ed Completion

Hello, I have some questions about students transferring in with a Bachelor’s degree and the assumption that their Gen Ed core was met.

4. Do you handle the AA or AS transfers with Gen Ed the same way?

Am I making this too complicated? It just seems like the more I dive into this process, the more questions I have. Thanks for any wisdom you can share!

Leslie Dickerson

Montana Tech

Registrar/Executive Dir. of Enrollment Magement

(406) 496-4879

ldickerson@mtech.edu

Thursday, September 3, 2015

Re: Home School Students

I spoke to our FA department and they provided a few more details on the point that Sarah made. According to the FSA website:

“To receive FSA funds, a student must be qualified to study at the postsecondary level. A student qualifies if she:

…has completed secondary school education in a homeschooled setting which qualifies for an exemption from compulsory attendance requirements under state law, if state law does not require a home-schooled student to receive a credential for their education.”

On another page:

“Though homeschool students are not considered to have a high school diploma or equivalent, they are eligible to receive FSA funds if their secondary school education was in a homeschool that state law treats as a home or private school.”

So it looks like we are covered because BOR allows us to admit.

Leslie Dickerson

Montana Tech

Registrar/Executive Dir. of Enrollment Magement

(406) 496-4879

ldickerson@mtech.edu

From: MACRAO Listserv [mailto:MACRAO@LISTSERV.GFCMSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Dellwo, Sarah
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2015 2:57 PM
To: MACRAO@LISTSERV.GFCMSU.EDU
Subject: Re: Home School Students

Hi Matt,

If a student has an unaccredited curriculum we admit them based on their test scores and they have to work with financial aid to determine their eligibility. My understanding from financial aid is that ability to benefit cannot be used for financial aid, but homeschooled can be include under something in the federal regulations. I am a little unclear on that aspect of it though.

Sarah Dellwo, Director of Admissions and Records

1115 North Roberts

Helena, MT 59601

(p) 406-447-6908 (f) 406-447-6397

www.umhelena.edu

From: MACRAO Listserv [mailto:MACRAO@LISTSERV.GFCMSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Matt Allen
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2015 10:24 AM
To: MACRAO@LISTSERV.GFCMSU.EDU
Subject: Home School Students

Good Morning Everyone,

I have a question regarding home school students that complete a non-accredited curriculum.

According to the MUS Policy 301:

A. Students must have graduated from a high school accredited by the state accrediting agency, OR have a high school equivalency completion assessment designated by the Montana Board of Public Education to be admitted to any campus of the Montana University System. At the discretion of the institution, for students who complete their secondary education through home schooling or at unaccredited secondary schools, this requirement may be met by “satisfactory performance” on the ACT, SAT, or a recognized testing instrument defined in the Federal Register as indicative of a student’s “ability to benefit.”

If a student does not complete an accredited home school curriculum but has high test scores on their ACT how are you working with them in the admission process? If a student is admitted based on test scores does this create an issue with financial aid?

Thanks,

Matt

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Wednesday, September 2, 2015

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Tuesday, September 1, 2015

Re: Home School Students

Hi Matt,

Sarah Dellwo, Director of Admissions and Records

1115 North Roberts

Helena, MT 59601

(p) 406-447-6908 (f) 406-447-6397

www.umhelena.edu

Good Morning Everyone,

I have a question regarding home school students that complete a non-accredited curriculum.

According to the MUS Policy 301:

Thanks,

Matt

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Re: Home School Students

If we accept the home school documents as equivalent, financial aid does too here at Northern.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 1, 2015, at 12:27 PM, Matt Allen <Matt.Allen@UMWESTERN.EDU> wrote:

Good Morning Everyone,

I have a question regarding home school students that complete a non-accredited curriculum.

According to the MUS Policy 301:

A. Students must have graduated from a high school accredited by the state accrediting agency, OR have a high school equivalency completion assessment designated by the Montana Board of Public Education to be admitted to any campus of the Montana University System. At the discretion of the institution, for students who complete their secondary education through home schooling or at unaccredited secondary schools, this requirement may be met by "satisfactory performance" on the ACT, SAT, or a recognized testing instrument defined in the Federal Register as indicative of a student's "ability to benefit."

If a student does not complete an accredited home school curriculum but has high test scores on their ACT how are you working with them in the admission process? If a student is admitted based on test scores does this create an issue with financial aid?

Thanks,

Matt

Matt Allen, M.Ed. | Interim Director of Admissions | The University of Montana Western | 710 South Atlantic Street | Dillon, Montana 59725 | 406.683.7450 |www.umwestern.edu

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Subscription probe for MACRAO - please ignore

Tue, 1 Sep 2015 06:00:00

This message is a "probe" for your subscription to the MACRAO list. You
do not need to take any action to remain subscribed to the list. In
particular, you should not reply to this message. Simply discard it now,
or read on if you would like to know more about how this probing
mechanism works.

A "probe" is a message like the one you are reading, sent to an
individual subscriber and tagged with a special signature to uniquely
identify this particular subscriber (you may not see the signature
because it is in the mail headers). If the subscriber's email address is
no longer valid, then the message will be returned to LISTSERV and the
faulty address will be removed from the list. If the subscriber's address
is still valid, then the message will not bounce and the user will not be
deleted.

MACRAO

Pages

Tuesday, September 8, 2015

Re: Assuming Gen Ed Completion

Re: Assuming Gen Ed Completion

Re: Assuming Gen Ed Completion

Re: Assuming Gen Ed Completion

Re: Assuming Gen Ed Completion

Re: Assuming Gen Ed Completion

Assuming Gen Ed Completion

Thursday, September 3, 2015

Re: Home School Students

Wednesday, September 2, 2015

Subscription probe for MACRAO - please ignore

Tuesday, September 1, 2015

Re: Home School Students

Re: Home School Students

Probe failure for MACRAO

Subscription probe for MACRAO - please ignore

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